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  1. That figures…after searching for half an hour yesturday, I post a request for a phonetic wordlist, try one last search in google, and find one in the first link. So nevermind about that! I'm so excited about this project! I'm gonna start tonight after work! So just that this isn't a wasted message topic, anyone have any ideas or suggestions that I could possibly incorperate into this? What do you think? Shareware? Freeware? Trialware? Wareware? What export format should I use? A picture like jpeg, gif, or Adobe Acrobat, or something else? I think I'll start off with Simplified…but it'd be SO easy to make a "load language" feature that you could switch to Jubilee, Anniversary, Pitman (? hmmm), etc. Oh the options! We'll see how it works out…I'll keep everyone updated if anyone cares for this… ./[psetus] (I wrote rhaepsis last post…oops…that's my OTHER forum's name…)

  2. This sounds great!  I'm not too sure how you're going to do this (that went over my head) but I get the general idea and it sounds great.  Good luck. Debbi

  3. Whoever you are, you have an incredible idea.  If I knew anything about this sort of thing, I would be so eager to help you.  Surely, somewhere there is a shorthand enthusasts who has thought of this already and just needs to meet up with you  here on the MSN message boards!  That would be super cool, wouldn't it?  Good luck to you and I'll do my best to keep an open eye for you in this area too.   Ms. Letha  🙂  

  4. Um… i vote for freeware!  No, I'm just being greedy.  Tyler, I have seen many posts on newsgroups about people seeking a program to convert Gregg into longhand text–kind of the inverse of your idea.  I'll see if I can find them again, and put a link in this thread.  Seems a lot of people think it would be useful on PDA's instead of graffiti and such.

  5. I can't keep track of my sunglasses, I don't know what I'd do with a PDA. When someone invents an implantable version, I'll go out and buy one.

  6. Alright alright!! I said I was gonna start working on it…and man…I've been so excited about this project that I've been neglecting EVERYTHING else in my life…but that's perfectly alright  If I'm not neglecting everything for one thing, it's for another. (It even made me late for work last week, he he)   And here's the big to-do: I already have a screenshot for everyone! Like it says…It isn't much, but apart from missspeld words, it's a decent start. As you can probably guess, you type (or in the future import from an e-book or something?!?) into the left panel, click the arrow in the toolbar, and your shorthand pops up in the right side. It'll eventually have things like being able to format the text with colors, italics, bold, custom page sizes, etc, etc. Basically Wordpad with Gregg! (Except it's cool!)     One thing that suprised me is how fast it is! The Gregg being displayed is instantaneous which means that I may eventually get a "see as you type" thing going that prints the new outline as soon as you finish the word, instead of clicking the "generate" button. After I get every stroke and letter programmed in (I'm missing about 1/3 the letters…) and have them rendering 90% accurately, I'll work on brief forms, which won't be too hard, then I'll start working on the user interface. (which'll take a while) I've been coming up with ideas left and right for this thing…and, if I do say so myself (and I do say so myself!), some of them are spectacular and will be pull-off-able so long as I can get the basic program working. I don't want to spoil everything at once, so I'll keep updating occasionally as things work themselves out. I can't guarantee anything as nothing's guaranteed in life, but I could have some more decent progress by a couple week's time or so. Till then! ./[psetus] [yeah…Tyler Houvener's me too…I think I'll just be going by that instead…"You shall call me…Tyler." hehe…what movie?!?!?]

  7. Wow, Paul … er, Tyler!  I feel like I am witnessing history.  What a cool idea, and how quickly you've put it together.  I'm on the edge of my seat to see it develop more.  Now, about that shareware issue…. ::makes praying mantis motions with hands::   _________________  

  8. Hi, psetus.  It's Ms. Letha.  I think your translator work is pretty cool!  Do you think you can make it include the brief forms?  Most people who are already familiar with shorthand do not wish to spell the brief forms out.   Your sentence, if the brief forms were included into your program discovery, would then read different shorthand symbols.  I do not know how to place a graphic onto this screen or I would provide you with a proper shorthand example of what I mean.   Therefore, all I can do is spell out the symbols for you.  I think what you've accomplished is absolutely wonderful.    If BFs were included, the sentence would be spelled much shorter…like this:   "Not much, but I think it's a good start." Not = n     much = m-chay     but = b-t     I think = a-over ith  it's = t-left s-apostrophe      a = dot     good = gay        start = comma s-t-a-r-t.   The brief forms in this sentence are the same for both "Simplified" and "Diamond Jubilee."  Good luck.  I am impressed with your super job! ========================================================= I guess my second point on this issue is a tad more negative than the first.  But, please do not think I am trying to degrade your efforts in anyway.   Many folks that already know shorthand enjoy the experience and thrill of writing it– not just to save writing time…but, because it's beautiful when written.  It actually FEELS good to write the symbols in their graceful form.  It's a fun thing to write others in our secret language and there always seems to be a certain pleasure when a new word is written as an automatic response of our shorthand knowledge when we are taking dictation notes.  There's also a personal confidence that is possessed when a person doesn't have to depend on the computer for notetaking.  I suppose, this would be the modern way, though.   Please do not be offended by this honest question.  I do not understand why a person who loves the shorthand art would want to exchange it for typing English on the keyboard instead and having the translator get the joy of shorthand writing instead of our own hands.    I fear, psetus (Is your name Tyler?), that with your exellent discovery, shorthand writing may be dissolved forever.  I would like shorthand to "live" on.  I believe it to be a very practical and marvelous tool of invention.   Tell me sir, are my fears unwarranted?  Thank you, Ms. Letha  🙂

  9. I say…Thanks,Tyler. You've brought me much comfort with your lengthy explanation. I'm wordy too. But, now I am happy.

    Of course, I think it blows my chances for getting children's books printed in DJS shorthand! If you're going to put all 7 versions of shorthand into this translator, why should I bother to write these children's books in MY shorthand?

    Gotta scoot. Bye. Ms. Letha 🙂

  10. Ok…I promise this one's short: The reason you shouldn't give up on your DJ children's books: – the thrill of writing Gregg – the beauty – the sensation of it – the fun – the personal confidence it inspires – and…because Greggory isn't going to ready for a while!! lol…no…even then, who's to say it'll look better than handwritten Gregg??   No no…I would fully encourage you not to give up ANYTHING you would do just because this is coming out! Like I said, my goal for this isn't to lower the amount of "Gregg activity" throughout the world…only to make it seem more worthwhile and help as a learning tool! I would think that writing children's books in DJ would be fun! That's reason enough to do them!   What exactly are you planning on, by the way? Are you going to "translate" already printed work, or are you going to be writing your own original books? Both would be great, but writing your own would be incredibly wonderful! Are you going to try and have them published? Or just do a self-published thing? Anyways, it sound's like a great idea. I'm looking forward to them! ./[tyler]

  11. It occurs to me that one practical use of the software would be as a Gregg dictionary. Can't remember the brief form for envelope? Just crunch it through Greggory! Writing your Pre-anniversary steno-buddy? Check your work with Greggory!

  12. Okay, I'll keep my little dream alive! But, it's near the bottom of my priority list..probably several years away. No definite plans have been written. My older son seems to dream quite often and remembers many details. I have taken some of his dream details and used them in my little stories. I'm not sure about how to get them published and not too concerned about it now since it is down the road.

    My higher priority is to finish preparation screens for the shorthand correspondence course and then to get it online somehow within a year.

    Thanks for your encouraging words to "keep pressing on." 🙂

  13. Hey, John! I agree with you on the practical use of Greggory as a dictionary tool! However, this means Tyler would need to add ALL 7 versions of gregg shorthand to his translator. That's a lot of work when you consider that this includes brief forms, abbreviations, phrases, word families, abbreviations not in word families, word beginnings,word endings, intersections and short vocabularies. He may even need to include the omission rules and word beginning and ending rules. Man,,,,ain't that a job! WOW! Ms. Letha 🙂

  14. Here's an idea to accomodate any version, and expanding on what Ms. Letha said.  Have Greggory write "verbatim", that is, you type the sound, and Greggory displays the outline.  In that way, Greggory can display any combination of strokes.   For example, for the phrase "Ann is more qualified than Mary", you can type: "An s m kufd thn Mare" for simplified Gregg, vs "An s mor ku_lfaid thn Mare" for Series 90.   The only thing is that you would need to know the Gregg version backwards and forwards, which sort of defeats the purpose of the software, which is to come up with the right outline.  Is that right?

  15. No! I accidently clicked Recommend on one of the posts and it exited out of my message! Anyways…in fewer words than before: I think that the issue you believe being able to type "verbatim" into Gregg would solve is already solved in a soon-to-be included feature. Greggory will have customizable lists of brief forms and phrases. So that, if you didn't like the "yours truley" becoming "UT", you could have it become "UTRE." If you were fascinated with philosophy and wanted to read up on some cartesian dualism, phenomenology, and behavioral determinism (teh heh…I get giddy just thinking about it all!) and you didn't like to read "KARTESh DULESM", "FENOMenOL", and "BAVEORL DetRMenESM", you could type in "cartesian dualism" into the list and have Greggory translate it into "KRSh DLS." "FENemL" or "DetRMS" or all three could be written as "KRAP" if you weren't intellectually inclined, in which case I could go into MY Greggory and make it replace "you" with "NOTE SLANg ESPLETiv" : ) And wouldn't that teach you a lesson now?!? Because of this, you can easily save your own brief forms, phrases, what have you into personalized lists. I'll include basic "presets" which you can easily switch between, or build your personalized list off of for S90, DJ, Cent, Simplified, Anniversary, and preAnn (Ann and pre may come versions later in the scheme of things as the extra strokes and vowel markings could take some time to get in order)   Anyways, I hope that answers what you're trying to suggest. Oh…and welcome to the group! It's always a joy to have more stenographers here, and your Anniversary experience is sure to augment many of our discussions! ./[tyler]

  16. Thank you for the warm welcome!   Your proposal for the software is really interesting.  If you are already thinking of including customizable lists of brief forms and phrases, it would be superb.  This software will really cook, hehe!  This is really exciting.   One thing that you may need to consider is that the joining of the hooks with the forward characters is different with the old versions.  For example, the word "or" looks different in Anniv vs in S90, even though it is the same two sounds (o hook + r).  So the software must be able to accomodate that.

    1. The last iteration of "Greggory" was being developed by another blog member (Chance). I haven't heard from him. If you do a search for "Greggory" you can find the latest posts.

  17. I am amazed at how good this translator is. I am surprised the web page doesn't have more information about the author. The Gregg outlines are great IMO. The Pitman's Shorthand isn't quite so good, but pretty amazing really.

  18. It has its weaknesses, though. It writes "part" correctly as p-t, but check out how it spells "compartment": k-p-a-r-tm-nt instead of k-p-t-m.

    I guess creating a transcriber like this isn't easy. I wish I knew DEK. I wonder how well it does with it.

    (Suetterlin is a longhand cursive script, so presumably this app works fine on it.)

  19. I contacted S. J. Sarman, the author of, to ask whether he would put his source code into the public domain or under open-source license. He cordially declined, saying that his University retained copyrights to his work. He did publish a paper on it,, and he invited me to reproduce his work using that paper. It looks feasible, but requiring more than a casual commitment. 

    Even less trivial and more interesting would be to go the other way: from Gregg to English. Nowadays, that would most likely be done via machine learning, requiring a large corpus of Gregg training data. That corpus would be hard to get from ordinary sources, but, ironically, I think could be generated from a Sarman-like program using "domain randomization."

    1. Howdy, I'm new to the group. And, I'm relatively new to Gregg Shorthand. Regarding software: Let's get the project underway. Way past time that a software was available for translating Gregg to English and vice-versa. What are your thoughts?


  20. Hello,

    I know it’s been ages, but do we have any news from Psetus who was working on software named Greggory? Any way to get in touch with him?


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