Rare Light-Line Phonography Book on eBay

Wow, you guys oughta see this–

A rare, light-line phonography book written by a contemporary of Gregg’s, named Pernin–

According to my information, Pernin’s system was written by about 3% of Americans in 1894. It might be interesting to see how close to Gregg it is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=356&item=7330493523&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

(by georgeamberson1 for everyone)

14 comments Add yours
  1. AUGH! I'm goin' for it!! Anyone out there: Don't try and stop me, I will CRUSH you! lololololol. Just kidding : ) But if I can get this, I'll scan it in and hopefully Andrew or John can get it up…if not, I'll just do the e-mail thing, or I'll setup a temporary link for downloading from my webhost. I'm glad to hear some of the positive feedback about Fables, btw : ) Good to know it isn't making people's toasters explode or faces turn upsidedown! ./[tyler]

  2. Pernin's sytem is an adaptation into English (certainly not the best one) of Duploy챕's system. It bears very little ressemblance to Gregg's, but nonetheless shares a few principles. Vowel sounds are indicated in the outlines, and voiced consonants are differenciated from unvoiced consonants by their size, except for S and Z sounds, exactly as in Gregg. Unfortunately, Pernin didn't understand how the hooks and quadrants are placed in Duployé, so his adaptation is of lower quality than Sloan's, which was favoured by Dr. Gregg. On the other hand, Sloan departed from Duployé's system, which made no use of shading. Everything is said in the collection of articles by Dr. Gregg, published under the title of The Basic Principles of Gregg Shorthand.    

  3. Mark, with all due respect, that book written by Dr. Gregg is full of distortions, half-truths, and in at least two cases, outright lies. Moreover, some of Dr. Gregg's sources contradict one another in actual practice.

    Dr. Gregg wrote that book in 1922 at a time when he was trying to promote a new system. As another forum-mate has already said, Dr. Gregg was very biased and very selective with his reasoning, and would have had every reason to shade the truth…

  4. GeorgeAmberson, I'm not going to engage into a polemic with you, concerning Dr. Gregg's biased judgement on Pitman's system. Being myself basically a Duploy챕 writer, that polemic seems a bit odd to me. All I can tell you is Dr. Gregg didn't copy Pernin's or Sloan's adaptations, he only borrowed a few principles from Duploy챕. That will be easy for you to verify when you see the book. By the way, Dr. Gregg never learnt Duployé's original system, which was devised for French only. At that time, the system wasn't meant to take verbatim dictations ; only in 1890, twenty years after the publication of the first booklet, a new highly abbreviated version of the system was devised for parliamentary and court reporting. That new version which was called "métagraphie", had shorthand rules only, and no exceptions.

  5. Hi, there, Mark:

    I merely contend that using The Basic Principles of Gregg Shorthand as a kind of "shorthand Bible" is a mistake.

    As an aside, I've been studying the history of stenography. You would not believe the lies, treachery, double-dealing, and back-stabbing there was in the early days of the Shorthand industry. (In one instance, a famous shorthand system writer ripped off his own brother!) It's a fascinating, if melodramatic, history. It is in this tradition that Dr. Gregg's writings (and everybody else's!) should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I remain very respectful towards Gregg's system, however. Pre-Anniversary and Anniversary Gregg, in particular, are fully rounded systems…

    I've been trying to locate a copy of Sloan-Duployan's system, but they've become quite rare.

  6. Well, if I can still use my scanner, I can send you a copy of the Collins Edition (1960). Just give me the time.   Yes, those were strange times, but I wonder if this has really changed.
    Sloan-Duploy챕 is very fast. The outlines are very short, geometric and most of the rules are pure shorthand rules.   However, this isn't the system I have learnt and still use. I learnt French Duploy챕 and its adaptation to English and Italian in a Swiss school.

  7. Dear Mark:

    A scan of the 1960 book would be much appreciated. I've only seen Sloan-Duployan, the English version, just once, and have never seen pure Duployan. My understanding is that pure Duployan was the method de rigeur in Quebec.

    When I get my Eclectic Shorthand book in the mail, depicting the Cross system, I'll scan a page or two for everybody's perusal.

    It might be interesting to see examples of a whole lot of different shorthand systems. If anybody else wants to scan such samples, I'd be much obliged. 🙂

  8. It is just my goal to publish as much of Gregg literature as possible. 🙂 Since Basic Principles is certainly a Gregg work, I figured I should post it, and without disclaimer or summary. Also, it is the only text-only Gregg book in which I could test my ability to represent Gregg literature in a modern style (instead of the old Schoolbook font in which it is printed).

    The main thing may not be superiority in shorthand principles, but rather one may learn through experience that one system is more facile and faster than the others. Try as many systems as you like, but as for us in the Gregg Shorthand group, I should hope we would lean toward Gregg Shorthand.

  9. The George Thornton book you mention is an attempt by the author to translate Pitman into a light-line system.  Basically, he wrote Pitman as Pitman would write it, but ignored the thick/thin distinction completely.  Not a particularly legible method! 

  10. Ian:

    How interesting! It's easy to see why the method didn't catch on, though. Just out of curiosity, how did you know about it?

    DangerArranger: I've been impressed by your endeavors with your Gregg Shorthand website. It must have taken a Helluva lot of work. Have you ever thought about giving lessons in Anniversary? You and I share a profound respect for this stellar system, and I'm sure Anniversary's no longer taught anywhere.

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