An invitation…

This is an invitation for you to visit my site of Stenography:   I’m a retired parliamentary stenographer and now a teacher of Stenography (System MARON, a brazilian one).  I have a pupil named Laíse, (Gregg system, adapted to Portuguese) who came to me in order to practise speed.  The second vídeo at my homepage shows Laíse writing in  Gregg shorthand (125 wpm).  Take a look at it!  It’s very interesting…
Best regards!
Prof. Waldir Cury (from Brazil)

(by 5984ginasta for everyone)

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  1. Oi Waldir!  Seja bem-vindo ao nosso foro e muito obrigado pela invitação!   I really enjoyed your site.  We were commenting in the group about those videos, and I could recognize that the lady was taking down a speech by the President of Brazil.  I'm curious as to the adaptation of Gregg to Portuguese that your student writes.  Did she device her own system?  I have a copy of the original adaptation made in 1927 by Eugénio Cláudio Harter.  While it is a good first start, it is in no way a refined version (as for example the Spanish versions are).  Some of the principles are really awkward (the notation for nasal vowels stand out here).  In fact, I'm still puzzled as to why the author didn't follow the more logical adaptation to Spanish.  The other problem with this version is that it not written in modern Portuguese (as you can imagine), though this is a minor point.

  2. Hi Carlos Rodriguez, I was very proud to read that my voice seemed to be the voice of the Presidente of Brazil!  Not bad!  Indeed, that voice is mine, an unpretentious teacher of stenography.  But anyhow my humble self appreciated the comparison!  That lady learned Gregg with her mother, a parliamentary stenographer here in Rio de Janeiro.  Not with a book, but with a xerox of old papers.  So she was not able to give me the information you asking me about.  You are right: Gregg was adapted to Portuguese in 1927. To Spanish in 1904, to Esperanto in 1918, to French and German in 1924, to Polish in 1926, to Italian in 1928 and to Russian in 1935. I'm going to look for the adaptation to Portuguese of 1927 and after.  If I can find it, I'll tell you. 

  3. Thanks again, Waldir. Wow, then I stand corrected — I thought I was listening to Lula, :-). My mistake!

    I can give you a little more information about the Portuguese version of Gregg. As you know, the original adaptation by Eugénio Cláudio Harter was released in 1927, under the name "Tachygraphia Gregg." It was subsequently rereleased in 1960 under the name "Estenografia Gregg" (same author), and published by Editora Pioneira of São Paulo. I'm sure that it must have been rewritten somewhat (notice the slightly different title), since like I said, the Portuguese spelling in the 1927 version is rather archaic. I have the 1927 edition, but if you have the means of finding the more recent version, I would like to see that.

  4. Mcbud, can you help me?
    I'm brazilian, and I'm just (re)starting to learn Gregg, and Eugenio Harter's book (Editora Pioneira) was one of the two books with a Gregg adaptation to portuguese that I could found. The other one is from 1933 – "Taquigrafia Universal Pratica" by Helena Mac-Lean Rechy – maybe the book with the ugliest Gregg shorthand that someone can find!
    You said that some of the principles in the brazilian adaptation of Gregg are awkward. As an example, you said that the notation for nasal vowels is not very good. My question is: what is your suggestion for a better notation? I know it is difficult to make a good adaptation, but would like to know your ideas about a better way to write the vowels.

  5. Oi Juca!

    One idea (and this coming from the Spanish adaptation) is to use the "n" for ão (blending it with the previous consonant), and "a – n" for ã. In the case in which we cannot distinguish between ão, and ã, the context will tell. For example:

    – pão: p – n
    – pães: p – n – s
    – pã: p – a – n
    – ladrão: l – a – d – r – n
    – ladrões: l – a – d – r – n – s
    – capitão: k – a – p – tn blend
    – irmão: reversed e – mn blend
    – irmã: reversed e – m – a – n
    – capim: k – a – p – e – n

    I have other suggestions, like for example:

    1. distinguish nh from n and lh from l by using a small vertical line under the n or l (instead of writing a dot, because the line is faster to write).
    2. for the sound of "i", use a dot under the e circle (like in English and Spanish)
    3. for the open "e", and the dipthong "ie", vertical line under the e circle.
    4. for the ou dipthong (like in "roupa"), use a vertical line under the o hook.
    5. for "um" or "uma", use u – n

    Since you have the Harter book, I'm missing a couple of pages of that book (pages 103-104). Would you be able to scan and post? Also, I'm curious as to the Mac-Lean Rechy's book, and see how she adapted the system.


  6. Thank you very much for your ideas.
    I've done lots of research about shorthand systems (brazilian and adaptations), and I was lucky enough to find a good exemplar of the Functional Method (DJS, 1963). Harter's book was not too difficult to find. I think that the main problem with Harter's book is that it is not easy for a beginner to understand the reading exercises – at least without a key. I really like the way that the Functional Method is organized; in spite of my limited knowledge of English, I'm able to do the Functional "reading practice" exercises much more easily than Harter's "exercícios de leitura". Finally, Rechy's book was very difficult to find – I just read that it was published in 1933, but was not able to find one to buy. But researching by the author's name, I finally found one exemplar in an university library, not too far from my home (kudos to Google)! The library has a policy that allowed me to take photos of old books with a digital camera, so it's already scanned (not the best solution, but better than nothing). The zipped file has a size around 18M. I can send it to you (or split in smaller parts), just tell me if I can sent it to your email – of course, I can send the missing pages of Harter's book (or all the book, but it's a file with 30M of size).
    Finally, I need a little help (something like "Using Multiply for Dummies"), because I do not know how to add a new topic here. I'm sure it's a really really dummy question, because I can remember that once I was able to post here. Clicking "All messages/view all", I can read old messages and use the "reply" link, or use the "add a comment" in the bottom of the page – but still no clues about a creation of a new topic. If I choose "General Discussion/View All", the same thing happens. Finally, "General Discussion/Add to General" gives me the message: "This group's administrator has disallowed the further posting of this type of content. See the group's profile for more details.". Well, one more click on "group's profile", and can't find a tip that help me…

  7. You are pretty lucky with respect to the shorthand books, because they are very difficult to find. I have the first and second editions of Harter's book (the second came after the orthographic change in the 40s). I have a photocopy of the first edition, and got the second edition from an used book store in Porto Alegre, where I ordered the book online.

    Part of the reason that you can read the DJS functional method book is that it is DJS, so it is simpler to read. Harter's book is more like Anniversary. Plus, the sentences appear more contrived, so they are harder to read. However the DJS made many simplifications to the system, so you will find shortcuts in Harter's book coming from earlier versions of English Gregg Shorthand, that were eliminated from English DJS.

    I probably should compile a list of changes that would benefit the Portuguese version.

    For posting a new topic here, it's pretty simple. If you go to the home page, you will notice that there is a box labeled "General." Inside that box, you can click on "Add to General" and that will bring you to the message posting with the "general" tag.

    For the scans, try to post them here. To do that, go to the home page, and scroll down to the "Documents" box. Click on "Add to documents", and you will be brought to a page in which you can type a message and upload documents (clicking on the paperclip icon).

    Maybe you're having problems posting because I don't see you as a member. Click on "Join" to be a member of the group.

    And by the way, your English is great! You have better spelling and sentence composition than a lot of native speakers!

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