Doezis Shorthand

(by johnsapp for everyone)

[Relocated from the General discussion]

RecommendDelete    Message 1 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameVALO1969  (Original Message)Sent: 12/8/2005 3:10 PM
Hi fellows!
I have uploaded six files scanned from my Doezis shorthand book.

Doezis is the nickname of Rolando S찼nchez, a Chilean stenographer who created two systems of shorthand: Rolsan and Doezis.

In his Doezis book, he inserted a section for the adaptation of his Spanish shorthand for English shorthand.

I’ll be waiting for your comments.



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RecommendDelete    Message 2 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesidhetabaSent: 12/8/2005 3:25 PM

Can’t find the documents! What are they named?

RecommendDelete    Message 3 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesidhetabaSent: 12/8/2005 3:27 PM

Oops, sorry, found them in pictures, but could not see them. They’re gif files, can anyone help?

RecommendDelete    Message 4 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameVALO1969Sent: 12/8/2005 10:32 PM

I have reloaded them but in JPG format, and it seems to me is OK.

Let me know if you can see them.



RecommendDelete    Message 5 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameVALO1969Sent: 12/8/2005 10:34 PM
The files are in

RecommendDelete    Message 6 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesidhetabaSent: 12/8/2005 11:22 PM

Thanks Valo, good pictures.
Can you write it in Spanish? It seems like an awful lot of different forms for vowels = 3 or more for a, e, i, o, and only one for u.
It’s not clear whether the different forms mean different sounds.

RecommendDelete    Message 7 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGeorgeAmberson1Sent: 12/9/2005 1:47 PM
Interesting. From the viewpoint of a Pitman student, it looks very much like Gregg,straightened out a bit.

The writer probably should have gotten help in the translation, because the longhand is poorly translated.

RecommendDelete    Message 8 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameVALO1969Sent: 12/9/2005 4:59 PM
Doezis was meant first for Spanish, then for English.
The main rule for vowels is about joining; for example, if it’s better a curve A, then use it. However, for convention, some vowels are used for representing an ending (suffix).

It’s easy for writing in Spanish, anyway I don’t use it, because I don’t like it, mainly, because in comparison with Pitman’s system, that doesn’t require vowels (and this is a saving-time way in shorthand, especially for a full-of-vowels Spanish); Doezis has twelve strokes for vowels, and they are the longest ones in comparison with the consonant strokes. Don’t you think?

10 comments Add yours
  1. VALO:

    It's hard to say; the rules for English Pitman vary quite a bit from Spanish Pitman. For example, words ending with a vowel require the use of a stroke, rather than a hook or a circle, unlike the Spanish version.

    Judging from what you've told me, Spanish Pitman is harder to read than English, which is very easy as long as the writer doesn't go crazy with phrasing. This might have to do with the mechanics of the language (more words ending with vowels, etc.)

    But your observations about Doezis seem to be accurate. A Spanish system which emphasizes vowels would necessarily be slower than one, such as Pitman, that de-emphasizes them.

    What would be interesting to hear is how Spanish Gregg compares with this Doezis system. ??

  2. George:
    I write Pitman as well, I don't consider Spanish Pitman is a difficult system to learn; even though, you have to consider that Spanish is a language more fixed than English. In fact, there's an Uruguayan system that I like a lot, this is Carissimi, and this system takes Spanish words an split them up in syllables, so we can say there are patterns for the construction of words in Spanish.

    About Pitman, for example, I write a hook, even though that word ends in a vowel, because it's easy to "guess" the word. That's the reason I said: I like a system which doesn't require vowels, because it's a saving time way of writing (especially in Spanish).

    About the difficult of reading Pitman, my comment goes on the beginning of words, when there are a vowel + a consonant; exceptions: vS, vR & vL. But if you have a word beginning with a vowel + M, and if you don't write vowel, then you have to guess if it is vM or Mv. ("v" is a wild for any vowel or vowels).

    I think if you don't write vowels in any Spanish shorthand system, it will mean a lot of time saved in writing. Remember, Spanish writing is almost a 90% or more similar to Spanish speaking.

    I don't like Doezis, because you have to learn Major Linguistic Abbreviation for writing faster.

    Gregg is a great system!
    But, I'd like to write only consonants and some vowels when they're required; however, sometimes you have to write vowels which are not needed, because you have to avoid bad joinings.

    I hope to be clear. 😉

  3. VALO:

    I think a lot of difficulties between Spanish and English Pitman are probably specific to the language. As you've said, there are patterns of construction of words in Spanish, as there are in English, that aren't necessarily shared.

    For example, the difficulty in reading a vM as opposed to Mv isn't really shared in English. The consonants of "amass" and "mass" are the same, but the writer of English Pitman is supposed to vocalize the 'a' in "amass". There really aren't that many words in English like that, anyway. "Amass" isn't really that common a word, anyway.

    By contrast, your previous example of "yo" and "ya" (?) is more challenging, because both are common words, not necessarily indicated by context.

    Is intervocalisation a problem in Spanish? I have to admit it's a real challenge for me, because you have to rethink your ideas about word construction. "Secretary" and "scram" are written with the same "circle-hook-stroke" form, and it just won't compute in my head, in spite of a decently high linguistic IQ. I'm sure this problem will go away with further practice.

    English Pitman, in contrast to Spanish Pitman, really is a difficult system to learn; perhaps you read the link I previously posted about secretaries being in tears, trying to learn Pitman.

    But in spite of the higher learning curve with Pitman, it seems to be faster to learn than Gregg. Many of the textbooks (but not all) are designed to be learned in one semester; one Pitman book I have, taken at one lesson a week (which is very easy to accomplish), is learned in 23 weeks. By contrast, most of the Gregg textbooks are aimed at a one-year learning curve. I could be wrong about this. Perhaps Gregg students can further illuminate this issue.

    VALO, where did you learn Pitman? Is it still taught in schools? In the US, much to my dismay (!), neither Pitman nor Gregg is taught in very many schools. I only know of two schools all over the US that teach shorthand at all, much less Pitman…

  4. George:

    Intervocalisation is not a problem in Spanish, but this depends on the system, example: In Pitman, "mi hija (my daughter)" and "mi hijo (my son)" would be written exactly, except for the last vowel, that must be inserted for denoting the gender. However, in Carissimi, you have to write "hija" in 1st position, and "hijo" in 3rd position. (I will open a new discussion for Carissimi shorthand). But, in Spanish all the sentence must be in concord of number and gender. If the sentence had been "la hija (the daughter)" or "el hijo (the son)", the vowel wouldn't have been necessary to be inserted, because "el" is represented by a dot, and "la" is represented by a L stroke in 1st position.

    I think Pitman is difficult to learn, due to the required dexterity of thin and thick strokes. So, Gregg is the easiest to learn.

    I learnt Pitman by myself from a book bought for my aunt, when she tried to study secretary.

    My first approach to shorthand was when another aunt was studying secretary, and she has to transcribe news from the newspaper into shorthand, I was 8. She taught me some strokes, but I lost interest in that.

    When I was 14, I was checking some boxes in my grandmother's basement, and found a book with strokes of shorthand, and some printed letters in the book, where some authorities give their OK for the book, so I misunderstood that the book was related with politics… anyway, I kept it in my mind.

    That year, a friend of mine was in charge of taking notes in sessions of the church, so I sat next to her, and I was amazed about her ability. Then, I went back to my grandmother's basement, and I asked for the book, nobody cares… I never returned the book to her, and this was good, because my younger aunt (another one)got into drugs and she sold all the books for getting money to buy drugs… I saved Pitman's book.

    When I learnt Pitman, my friend and I did comparison between the systems, and she didn't understand how it's possible to write thin and thick strokes with speed.

    In Iquique (my town) there are two schools that imparted "secretary studies". Gregg was taught in 'Iquique English College', and Pitman was taught in 'Instituto Comercial'. I met a girl who studied in IC and the first year she learned Pitman, then the Institute shifted to Gregg, so she learnt it for two more years. IEC stopped teaching shorthand, and three years later, IC did it too…shorthand was considered an old fashion subject.


  5. Valo:

    Surprisingly, Pitman is alive and well in the UK (and other places in the Eastern Hemisphere). Classes can be taken at a number of places. Evidently, there's a need for it in situations where recording devices aren't welcome, such as in meetings, etc.

    I have a book written in Pitman 2000–an e-book, rather. If you'd like, let me know, and I'll email it to you. It's similar to Pitman New Era except the words are all written out.

    In other South American countries, shorthand in general is alive and well. It seems especially active in Brazil and Uruguay…

  6. George:

    I'll be glad if you send it to me, please. Take note of my Gmail: [email protected]

    I know that shorthand is used only in Representative Chamber and Senate Chamber. Once, I met a stenographer in a chat room, and he told me that he was in, after an examination, and his sister (a stenographer working in Representative Chamber) taught him Pitman. Really, he wasn't in mood to chat about shorthand, he was looking for chicks… anyway, he asks me about if the adaptation I know has three positions for writing: A-O / E / I-U. It seems we know the same adaptation. Because, a friend of mine learnt another adaptation, with these positions: A / E-O / I-U. And, also this adaptation changes Rs strokes, shifiting between vR & Rv.

    Well, here in Chile, the justice system has changed, copying in part the American one. But, there's no one taking notes in courts. I talked to a girl working in a court, and she told me that a rough draft is made, seemingly like a session record (minutes) and this is typed in a computer, and that's all. I was applying for the position of "in charge of session records", but there were more than 150 people along the country applying for that position, I could do some tests about number ability, and a psychological test for a group of 10… and that was a month ago, so I think, I wasn't chosen. Shorthand wasn't a requirement for that job.



  7. i would like u to email me the book.


    —–Original Message—–

    From: "Gregg Shorthand"
    Subj: Re: Doezis Shorthand
    Date: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:01 pm
    Size: 7K
    To: "Gregg Shorthand"

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    Doezis Shorthand

    Recommend Message 6 in Discussion From: GeorgeAmberson1

    Surprisingly, Pitman is alive and well in the UK (and other places in the Eastern Hemisphere). Classes can be taken at a number of places. Evidently, there's a need for it in situations where recording devices aren't welcome, such as in meetings, etc.

    I have a book written in Pitman 2000–an e-book, rather. If you'd like, let me know, and I'll email it to you. It's similar to Pitman New Era except the words are all written out.

    In other South American countries, shorthand in general is alive and well. It seems especially active in Brazil and Uruguay…
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