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  1. Hi,

    I deleted my first message, because I wrote it in a hurry and I wanted to give some more explaination.
    I started learning a Dutch shorthand system called 'Groote', but I don't think it's the system for me, because the connection of the letters is quite complicated, with a lot of rules.
    Also you have to use half lines otherwise for some words you'll be using 3.5 line, which isn't very convenient.
    Are there any Dutch-speakers here who have any experience with using Gregg for Dutch or people who have used it for other languages like German?
    Or maybe suggestions for another shorthand system I could probably use?


  2. Thank you for your quick response.

    I do live in the Netherlands. I've heard about system Pont and system Steger, Pont is still being used as far as I know, but the most used system in the Netherlands is still Groote.
    And I think the courses shorthand in Holland that are still taught will be very expensive and since I'm 14 years old, I don't have very much money to spend, so a system I can learn on the Internet would be the best option.

  3. Nick, are you in the Netherlands? If so, you could call one of the business schools and ask whether they still teach shorthand, and what are/were the systems they teach?

    I did a quick search on the catalog of the University of Utrecht, and found other systems besides Groote under 'stenografie': a Pitman adaptation (Pitman-Haan), a system called Pont (which they seem to still teach, not sure what kind of system is, check Instituut Pont website), another called Steger, another called Stolze-Wery, and another called Scheithauer.

    I hope this helps.

  4. In the US we have interlibrary loans, where the librarian can request a book from other libraries. For example, my local town library can request books from the Library of Congress. I expect that in the Netherlands they should have the same service. There are limits as to the duration of the loan, but the request itself is something that only librarians can do. That's why I suggested you going to the local library and request a loan. The librarian can also help you in doing the searches for the books you want. You should give this a try! Don't give up.

  5. It is a bit diffrent in Holland, I've used several terms to search on in the online catalogue of the library of my town which includes all books at other libraries in my province, but I just couldn't find something.
    But I was thinking if nobody knows about an existing Gregg adaption for Dutch it might be possible to create one and use the abbreviations that are used in Groote, but therefore I first have to learn Gregg shorthand for English, which could be a bit hard, because I'm not a native English speaker, so I could have problems with mistakes in my pronunciation, but it could be worth giving it a try.
    Maybe there are some Dutch speaking people who can help me.

  6. I hosted an exchange student from Holland a number of years ago.  His English language skills were so good that except for his name no one would suspect he was not native to our area in the United States.  I doubt your English skills would be much of a problem in learning Gregg in English and then simply using your skills to come up with the Dutch words.  I don't see a huge problem with that.  I've used Gregg for German from time to time.  It may not be "official" or "standard", but it works.   Don't be stingey with your practice time.  That's what really pays off.   SD

  7. The biggest problem I thought would be was the pronounciation of the vowels, but I found a description of German Gregg at http://gregg.angelfishy.net/grmng001.shtml and the German vowels match quite a lot more with the Dutch ones, but Dutch still has a few rare vowels/diphthongs like ui, ei/ij and u, but I think I'll find a solution for that.
    So I'm going to start with learning Gregg Anniversary of which is also posted a manual at angelfishy.net for the letter connections.

  8. hey there: …yes, i have use +groote+. it's and alphabethical system. not too complicated. in principle it can be used for most european languages. may be you do not like the system, because it sometimes looks scribbly, whereas systems like gregg and pitman look more clearly, but are mote difficult to learn. especially pitman. i noticed that there are no perfect systems. the french f.ex looks rather awkward. best (danielsundt)

  9. Hoi Nick,

    Ja, ik heb ervaring met Gregg maar schrijf het niet echt. Heb samen eens met een kennis (welke ook lid is van deze groep) erover gedacht om Gregg toe te passen op het Nederlands. Hier hebben we toen vanaf gezien omdat het best wel veel werk zou zijn (hoewel het wel makkelijk mogelijk moet zijn).

    Zelf heb ik HEEL VEEL materialen voor Groote. Dat regelgrootte geneuzel is misschien minder leuk, maar het is wel erg simpel te leren. Als je wilt kan ik wel een leerboek voor je inscannen en opsturen.

    Als je msn hebt, voeg me toe: [email protected]


  10. Dank je,

    Die regels zijn niet mijn grootste probleem, de letterverbindingen vind ik zeker niet ideaal, maar ik ben nu bezig met een online boekje uit 1925 ofzo, dus ik denk dat wat ander materiaal al heel veel zal helpen.
    Btw, ik heb je toegevoegd op msn.

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