Long U

In paragraph 165 of Gregg Shorthand Manuel Simplified it says that the long U is represented by e-oo, while in paragraph 192 it says the long U is often represented by the oo hook.

When do I use e-oo, and when do I use the oo hook?

(by chetjan for everyone)

10 comments Add yours
  1. Tsk tsk …
    Although I don't have the Manual in front of me, judging by the jump in paragraph numbers it sounds as though you're not completing each lesson before going on to the next. I would presume the examples given in Paragraph 192 make clear the reason for the exceptions to the general rule … most likely for ease of execution in outline.
    Normally if you simply memorize the correct outline of each word you'll automatically write it "correctly".

  2. I would caution you not to race through the manual.  Take the time to learn it.  You have that urge to absorb it all but don't.  You are building a foundation.  Let the mortar set.    Yes, there are times when the diphthong is represented by "oo" in certain combinations.  But wait until you get there.  Mostly it's when it's not stressed or the joining is easier.    Each lesson builds on the one before it and it's a bad idea to breeze through the early lessons.  As you work through the words, you'll see what they mean. 

  3. Was my last "lecture" an oxymoron? I meant that if you have understood each lesson and are comfortable with what you have learned before moving on, you'll automatically form the correct outline without fretting whether or not it should be "E-U" or "U".

    The Manual is very well laid out, presenting the most frequently used words in the English language early on. The importance of practicing all the example words, brief forms and phrases cannot be overstressed.

    It seems symptomatic that beginners without the guidance of an experienced teacher jump ahead. You were wise to choose Simplified as it's the last version of Gregg which is really designed with verbatim capability. Don't negate the wisdom of your choice by not thoroughly practicing and mastering the theory of each lesson in order. After you complete the Manual you might wish to obtain copies of Gregg Dictation Simplified and Gregg Transcription Simplified from eBay to have extra reading material, even if it consists primarily of those dull business letters.

    Good luck! (In case you jumped to the conclusion of this note rather than reading the body.) :-))

  4. Whoa…hold on guys. Why are you automatically assuming that chetjan skipped through the manual? If I had mastered paragraph 165 in which the "iu" sound is represented by the diphthong, then three lessons later came across a "rule" that told me that sometimes you don't use the diphthong without telling me reason why or for which cases the new rule applies, I would be confused too. Some people just expect consistency and logic in application of principles. I think what chetjan is asking is what if you came across a novel word that you haven't seen written in simplified before with the "iu" sound. How would you know how to write it? Could you be sure without looking at a dictionary? Also certain regional pronunciations of words like "new, tube, due" complicate the matter. In the midwest, we do not say "niu, tiub, diu" but "noo, toob, doo." I write these words the way I pronounce them, and that seems to follow the Gregg spelling pretty well. It seems to me, and I'm sure Chuck has the answer, that if the "iu" sound follows a straight line like "sh" "n" "m" "t" or "d", then you do NOT use the diphthong.

  5. Egad, thousandwaves, you may be right. The only thing belying your supposition is that the author of the "U" question announced his commencement of the Simplified Manual less than a month ago. Unless he is a quick study and devoting hours daily to shorthand, I'm guessing to get up to Para. 192 is sort of pushing the envelope in such a short time frame. The "rule" you gave makes sense. Wonder what Chuck has to say?

  6. I think the question is valid, and it is in part because the Simplified manual is not clear.

    Paragraph 165 does not refer to the long U. The long U is the sound of "tomb", "rule", etc., phonetically written as ōō, and explained on paragraph 110. Paragraph 165 refers to the diphthong "e-u", which is expressed by — you guessed it — the shorthand characters e – u (and phonetically as ū). This is the sound of the words "few", "pew", "fuel", "united", etc.

    Paragraphs 191 & 192 refers to a special case. If two vowels not forming a true diphthong come together, the minor vowel may be omitted ("theory", "ideal", etc.). And in addition, for convenience, the circle may be omitted from the e-u diphthong. How to decide?

    (1) if you can pronounce the word without the diphthong without changing the meaning, write it without the circle to make it simpler: "new", "due", "issue", "reduce" (and similar words such as "induce", "produce", etc.), "astute", "tune", "avenue", "arduous" (and anything that ends in -uous), "courteous" (and anything that ends in -eous), "arduous" (and anything that ends in -uous), "genius" (and anything that ends in -ius, such as "radius"), and "tedious" (and anything that ends in -ious in Simplified Gregg only!)

    (2) the syllable -mus- (whether in diphthong or not) is written as m – u – right s, for ease of writing ("amuse", "music").

    (3) the syllable -nu- is always written as n – u in Simplified Gregg ("genuine", "nuclear", but not in "-nur- such as "nurture")

    Test yourself with the following words: "future", "gregarious", "assiduous", "ingenuous", "revenue", "anew", "deduce", "mustard", "ingenuity", "museum", "review", "numeral", "nurse"

    That's all. So as a rule of thumb, when in doubt, spell it out.

  7. I have have nothing to do where a am, it is a house by the beach with no electronics (except for lights), and it has been raining for past month. Because of this I devote about 2 hours in the morning, and 3 in the afternoon to short hand. I am able to get through 1 or 2 lessons each day, reading the reading twice and copying it and memorizing it (I am not rushing). The jump in paragraphs is because I did 165 a few days ago, and when yesterday I saw that it said something that contradicted what I had memorized, so I looked back and asked you guys. (Just thought I would clarify).   Thank you Chuck for the answer, it makes everything clear. Just out of curiosity, how many years ago did you start shorthand Chuck?   PS. thousandwaves was right.

  8. I'm all for browsing ahead, _in moderation_.

    It's a nice way to finish a session, and gives you a foretaste of next day's work, so you can look forward to being able to write the next set of vocab. This is especially nice if you feel stalled and frustrated.

    It can answer questions you had when trying to use shorthand in daily life (I know my life isn't ordered the same as the text). It reassures you that, yes, the book will eventually get to the words you want to know.

    It sometimes clarifies things or prevents bad habits — such as using EU when U will do. No matter what order the book is in (and Gregg is really good), there will always be things that need to be taught in two different orders.

    For actual learning, though, you really do need to concentrate on and master one lesson at a time, otherwise you'll end up thinking about each word rather than developing automatic habits. There's also the tendency to not fully learn a rule, which leads to problems later on.

    Trust the book.

    I like Chuck's explanation: If not writing the E, or the diacritical, or the R, might lead to confusion with another word, add it in. The highly-abbreviated systems help you develop a feel for what's really critical.



  9. I'm glad that my little explanation made it clear. Do not hesitate to ask here if you have a doubt and want to clarify a point, that's one of the purposes of this group. Sometimes we jump at the question without thinking in the first place why the question was asked; don't take it personally.

    I learned shorthand just like you, on my own, during the summer before I entered college — that was about 20 years ago. And it was not unusual for me to dedicate a lot of time to it, because I was very motivated. But the advice of rereading the material and going over old stuff is a good one.

    Also, you should start working on dictation with material that has been already studied. Start slow, with the book open so that you gain confidence. Start with 30 to 60 sec, check your outlines, then go a little faster for another 30 to 60 sec with the same material, check the outlines again. Go like that one more time (a little faster), checking the outlines once done. Then dictate the material again, very slowly, for penmanship practice. Remember that dictation should force the speed regardless of the control of your writing. The fast speeds are designed to make you write down everything regardless of the quality of the writing, while the slow speeds are to develop writing control. Again, use material that you have already studied, not new material, as you don't want to develop a fear of dictation because you may hesitate in writing a word you've never seen before.

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