Gregg Shorthand in portuguese, complete – finally!

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  1. Cricket

    I can tell you that in French 75e Anniversaire (DJ) they use the symbols a little differently.

    They use the "e" for a long "a" sound = é & ai, as well as the short "e" sounds. They use the English "th" symbol for the "eille" sound.

    That's as far as I've gotten. I'm sure there will be others.

  2. Na verdade não sei se é a anniversary (nem mesmo sei o que significa "obrigado eu").
    I don't know wich version is this one. (And I don't even understand what "obrigado eu" means 🙂 – )
    Gregg Shorthand is not popular in Brazil – as far as I know, there were only 2 (old) books with adaptations to Portuguese. And perhaps part of the problem with all adaptations of shorthand methods to portuguese, is the use of the original symbols in the adaptations – you could not find reliable statistics showing us what are the most common sounds in Portuguese. It is difficult to find reliable studies about this, even today. What I've found are a few articles about the usage of letters – and it's not directly aplicable to shorthand, because some letters can have different sounds. "X", for example, can be read like a "z", "ks", "ch".

  3. No problem, I have never heard "obrigado eu" before, but I understood it was a little mistake – this is an advantage of learning shorthand… And I'm sure you can understand my not very good english, too. And I'm 51 y.o. and still have some troubles with portuguese. The "X" example is only one of our problems when we learn to write in portuguese – should we write "chicara" or "xicara" (cup) ? I do not know spanish, but I've heard that it is much more phonetic than portuguese. If it is so, I would like to see a more phonetic portuguese, with the usual alphabet. The author of this book (Estenografia Gregg), used some words VERY rare, like "acate", "guilha", "gagata". I used the dictionary to confirm that they do exist in portuguese. And this is a problem of this book – we have the reading exercises, but there is not a key.

  4. I read somewhere that English is a very difficult language, because you can write the same word with the same sound: "coffee" = "kaughphy", and there is not one single letter common to both words!

  5. OK, I wrote a key for the shorthand of the Estenografia Gregg book — not an easy task, I may add –, except there is one sign I have no idea what it means.

    Juca, are you still studying from this book? If so, you may have the answer, :-).

  6. I've been very busy, but sometimes I still try to study – and I am very interested in a key. Tell me what sign you have not deciphered and I'll see if I'm able to translate it.

  7. Page 113, fifth line, first outline. The sentence starts with the salutation Prezados Amigos: from the previous line.

    [whatever] a nosso amigo, carta de 13 de junho próximo passado …

    I know that the termination is -mos, so it must be a phrase that contains a verb.

    Also, if you have time, I would like you to read the key to see if I missed something. I'll do that later on.

  8. Wow, 113 pages and only ONE doubt in a foreign language? I have problems to decypher the first exercise (pg 7)in my native tongue! I would love to read your key, even if there is something missing.
    Let me tell you what I think:
    I don't know what [whatever] means, but I think that the final M is not "-mos", but "m_nt_" like in "-mente/-mento", according to page 87.
    The "n" inside the first symbol (prsns") told me that perhaps it was not "prezados amigos"; I flipped some pages back and find "Prezados Senhores" (pg 102)
    Finally, I think that "a nosso amigo" is really "a nossa carta".
    The phrase must be "Prezados Senhores [whatever] a nossa carta de 13 de junho…". [whatever] is still a mistery. I have no idea of what can be "nad_m_nt_" or "na d_m_nt_"

  9. There is nothing like a good rest to solve a good puzzle. I think I've got my "eureka" moment: it starts with "prezados senhores", like a lot of commercial letters. The "d" is a little longer than an usual "d",
    so it must be a "dt" like in "ndtmento" – or "em aditamento", that is a frequent expression in commercial letters…
    Now, it makes sense:
    "Prezados Senhores, em aditamento à nossa carta de 13 de junho…"
    It's like "dear sirs, in addition to our letter of June 13…"

  10. That's it! "Em aditamento", ugh. And yes, I meant Prezados Senhores in the previous line. I was typing too fast yesterday.

    The "a" is not written in "nosso" and "nossa", so if they wanted to write "a nossa carta", they would have written "a – n – o – left s – k – a – t" in one stroke. But your transcription makes much more sense than what I thought so it must be a mistake from the book. I found another mistake in a different section, so it would not surprise me.

  11. This is the second edition, which was published in 1955. I also have the first edition, published in 1927. The 1927 was written with the old Portuguese spelling, which is very different from modern Portuguese, plus the shorthand is not that clear.

    How did you miss this? You haven't logged on in a while! 🙂

  12. This much is true. Sorry for my long absence! I really wish I spoke more Portuguese, since I know so many people who speak it in the music school at LSU. Honestly, I'm afraid of its phonology.

  13. I think the biggest mistake in learning Portuguese is thinking that since the words look so similar to Spanish, that it is pronounced exactly the same. Not true! That's where conflict comes, because your ear needs to get used to the new sounds. But once that's passed, then it's a great language to learn! Its phonology is really not that complicated.

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