Question about TH/ND

hamishmacdonald

hamishmacdonald wrote on Jan 4, ’10, edited on Jan 4, ’10
I’ve a question — one of those ones that crops up when learning from old books without a teacher.

What’s
the distinction between the under-TH and the ND/NT combined stroke?
I’ve just come across this (while learning the Diamond Jubilee version
of Gregg), and there’s no mention of how to tell them apart.

I’m
tempted to start forming the shape for NT/ND/MT/MD with a flat line
(either short or long, depending), but a) I don’t want to start breaking
rules before I’ve learned the proper method, and b) I want to be able
to continue reading the shorthand provided with the exercises.

Thanks!

 
(by Hamish
for everyone)
8 comments Add yours
  1. I've a question — one of those ones that crops up when learning from old books without a teacher.

    What's the distinction between the under-TH and the ND/NT combined stroke? I've just come across this (while learning the Diamond Jubilee version of Gregg), and there's no mention of how to tell them apart.

    I'm tempted to start forming the shape for NT/ND/MT/MD with a flat line (either short or long, depending), but a) I don't want to start breaking rules before I've learned the proper method, and b) I want to be able to continue reading the shorthand provided with the exercises.

    Thanks!

  2. In DJ, i'm sure in the other series as well, TH curve is smaller than ND, which is smaller than MD.

    Not sure how to post a picture, but look in the index of your text for the lesson that shows the MD stroke, and it should show the three in succession to get an idea of scale.

  3. Trust the system until you've learned all of it. Some things that appear inconsequential later become important. Try to read several writers', to see what variation is acceptable. It will also help you read your own writing, since you'll be more used to minor variations.

    If I remember correctly, DJ doesn't show the third length of the "T /D / TT" sequence, which let me develop a bad habit. T is 1/4 the vertical distance, D is 1/2, and TT (also TD, DT and TD — context will make it clear) TT is the full height. I wasn't aware TT existed, so T and D were too long. Took a while to retrain my hand.

  4. Click here for the post "Writing Between the Lines." It explains the proportions.

    To add to the post, the distinction between the blends th, nd, and md is based on proportion: The stroke th goes from the bottom of line to the 1/4 of the space, nd goes from bottom to 1/2 of space, and md goes to bottom to top of space. Likewise, dn goes to 1/2 of space and dm to top of space.

  5. You've hit upon the reason I dislike DJ. The great jent/pent/pend blend as well as the dd/dt/td blends were thrown away. That, combined with the abolition of so many brief forms was IMHO ill judgment on the part of the authors. Of course by the time DJ texts were issued the publishers probably realized that for all practical purposes shorthand for verbatim reporting was no longer needed since courts were for the most part using stenotype machines. Sic transit gloria.

  6. I acquired a number of different texts, but the "DJ for College" ones contained the clearest lesson plans and sample text. I found that the earlier texts' samples leaped into combinations I'd never seen and were impossible for me to read without help.

    That said, when I've worked through them, I intend to go back to the Simplified text I have and pick up the missing forms there, and ultimately tackle the wee little 1939 "Victory" primer I got, which looks so simple, but heaps on tonnes of new forms with very little explanation and without exercises for practising them.

    I wish I could just pop back in time and take school classes with a teacher!

    That said, I am getting it, and am able now to understand nearly all the notes I take. (I do stop and look up forms in a wee dictionary, which helps.) I also found that, while Gregg doesn't require the use of ruled pages, at this point it really helps me keep the proportions in check a bit more — which is the major challenge in reading my notes later.

    I created this template for a ruled pad (I do bookbinding), which I printed multiple times, chopped in three, and made into a steno pad from. Feel free to download it if you like:
    http://www.hamishmacdonald.com/Gregg-ruled.pdf

    The lines are quite tight, because I naturally write small (so long, looping forms feel less efficient sometimes, but as I learn more prefixes and suffixes I'm sure this will happen less often).

    I recently worked on-site at my client's office, and people's reaction to my taking shorthand was funny: If I mention that I'm learning it (in an office full of computers), people ask why, but if I'm there and just doing it in practice, they find it fascinating. That's not the point, of course — I'm a writer, so the value of gaining this skill is obvious — but I have to admit the reactions were fun.

    Thanks for listening — o, you few who understand!

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