Immersion

GeneralCarlos39

I was thinking to myself, learning shorthand is like learning Spanish. Theoretically, if you take a Spanish book and just study it long enough, you can learn the language. But there are efficient ways to learn and inefficient ways.

I took four years of French in high school and still wasn’t fluent. I studied “Spanish for Gringos” for months and still didn’t learn much. But then I started working at Burger King and it was that experience of using it in practical, everyday work that taught me a lot of Spanish.
Isn’t immersion the most efficient way to learn a new language? I wonder if there is a way to apply that to shorthand. Unfortunately, I am unable to visit the Greggan Republic, where shorthand is the official language of road signs, currency, court documents, etc. and most of the computers use Windows GE.
However, could there be the next best thing? What if I started reading fiction in Gregg (with the English version nearby, for when I get stuck)? What if I started writing everything in Gregg, using a dictionary? Perhaps it is time I begin the long task of translating the King James Version into Anniversary Edition.

(by nathanlarson32767 for
everyone)


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39 comments Add yours

  1. Actually it would be rather difficult to translate the King James Version into Gregg without a good knowledge of principles.   There are lot of nations (e.g. Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites) and individuals (e.g. Asyncrtius, Phlegon, Hermas) that are not in the shorthand dictionaries.

  2. Yes, there is a way to inmerse into shorthand.  And you said it yourself:  read as much shorthand as you can, even though you wouldn't know what a specific stroke meant, and write as much as you can.  It works.    The Bible was translated into Gregg, and I believe it was in Anniversary Gregg.  I haven't seen one of these, but I know they did.  I don't know who did the actual writing.

  4. I don't think the Bible ever appeared in Gregg . .
    it did appear in Pitman, and those Bibles occasionally come up on e-bay. 
    But I've never seen any documentation about a Gregg Bible, or any old
    advertisements for it–no mention in any of the Gregg Writer
    magazines.
     
    If anyone has documentation otherwise, I'd like to
    know–I've always been curious why Gregg didn't publish the Bible.
     
    Alex

  6. The longest prose works I know of that appeared in
    Gregg shorthand are the transcriptions of "Alice in Wonderland" (which is a
    wonderful little volume, if you ever have a chance to find one), and the A.
    Conan Doyle story "The Sign of the Four" about Sherlock Holmes.  Both of
    these appeared as hardbound books–and I've seen the "Alice" in paperback as
    well, presumably a later reprint.
     
    The "Alice" book comes up on e-bay once in a while,
    but usually goes for a high price–shorthand enthusaists are competing with
    Lewis Carroll collectors for a book like that!  It's also available in the
    antiquarian book market, but lately it's been priced at several hundred (yep,
    hundred) dollars–check out the availability at abe.com.  If you ever find
    it for under $50, grab it.
     
    Alex

  7. The Greggan Republic has a rich history.   Established in 1888 by Prime Minister Robert R. Gregg, the nation found itself engaged in a struggle for dominance against its fierce neighbor, the Pitmanian Empire. Greggan forces under the command of General-in-Chief Martin J. Dupraw defeated the Pitmaniacs in the decisive battles of 1925, 1926, and 1927. Dupraw led the advancing charge, firing his weapon at 282 w.p.m. with 99% accuracy. His accomplishments in establishing Greggan superiority on the battlefield were recounted in textbooks for years to come.   Having successfully destroyed its principal rival, the Greggan Republic enjoyed many decades of expansion before being suddenly attacked in the 1940s by a new secret weapon code-named "the stenotype." In the ensuing confusion, the McGraw-Hill Act was rammed through Parliament. A reign of terror followed in which hundreds of brief forms were systematically eliminated. A group of 49 assumed power.   The Greggan Republic has five major political groups today: the Pre-Anniversary Party, Anniversary Party, Simplified Party, Diamond Jubilee Party, Series 90 Party, and Centennial Party. Most people reject the Pre-Anniversary, Anniversary and Centennial Parties as being "too extreme". In addition, the Series 90 Party fell into the disfavor when its liberal ways were blamed for the rapid decline of the Greggan Republic in the 1980s.

  9. What if I started writing everything in Gregg, using a dictionary? Yes do that.  What you can do is write down things and if you're unsure of an outline have a piece of paper and write it on that with the translation.  Then look it up in the dictionary to correct it.  Use shorthand for everything: phone messages, shopping lists, to do lists, journal (start one just to write in shorthand–Samuel Pepys wrote his diary in shorthand), and so on.  You could also practice.  I read in a shorthand book, they said you could even use ads in newspapers and magazines, just write the outline above the words.  You could do this with magazine or even typed articles. Debbi

  10. Sorry, I think I created some confusion in another post.  Simplified has 227 brief forms, not just 49.  Of the 69 most used English words listed by Nathan, 49 have brief forms in Simplified.

  12. Yeah, I figured you must have been looking at only the first page of Simplified outlines. So really, it is not much "simpler" than Anniversary.   Now I have to revise my History of the Greggan Revolution.

  13. Some guy from England in the 1600's who wrote his entire journal/diary in shorthand.  He was around when he London Bridge was on fire. I read that years ago and thought it was interesting. Debbi

  18. I saw it in the catalog of Rider University.  They have a Gregg Shorthand Bible, although it wasn't published by The Gregg Publishing Company.   http://library.rider.edu   Unfortunately I cannot give the exact URL since the site appears to be down at the moment.

  19. That sounds like a one-of-a-kind item. Was it actually published?   The Holy Bible : complete : written in Gregg shorthand during 1934 and 1935… Relevance: Title: The Holy Bible : complete : written in Gregg shorthand during 1934 and 1935 in the "Anniversary" Edition (1929) of Gregg Shorthand / by M. C. Crawley ; letters [by M. C. Crawley] of explanation inclosed.
    Bible. English. Shorthand. 1934. Publisher: [San Diego, Calif. : by Mrs. Mansfield C. Crawley, 1934-1936]. Description: Book
    12 notebooks ; 22cm. each in box 23 x 11 x 26 cm. + 3 letters (ca. 22 x 28 cm., folded to fit in envelopes) LC Subject(s): Bible. English. Shorthand. 1934.
    Shorthand–Gregg–Texts. Notes: Titles in Roman characters.
    Text pencilled in shorthand by Mansfield C. Crawley two columns to the page.
    Three personal letters in original postmarked envelopes addressed to Louis A. Leslie (two typewritten in English, one handwritten in shorthand) of Dec. 31, 1965 signed Augusta Davis Crawley (Mrs. Mansfiled C. Cralwey), Jan. 12, 1966 signed Augusta Davis Crawley, and Feb. 4, 1966 signed Augusta Crawley enclosed. Provenance: Library's copy in Riderana is a gift of Louis A. Leslie. Other Contributors: Crawley, Mansfield C. Table of Contents: Notebooks 1-9/1934-1936. [Old Testament]
    Notebooks 1-3/1935 [New Testament]. Location: Moore Library-Special Collections Call Number: BS355 .S4 1934 Shelving Location: Ask Librarian for access. Number of Items: 1 Status: Not Checked Out

  20. Reading the citation carefully, I don't think it was actually published, so I stand corrected.  Mr. Crawley wrote the manuscript in 12 notebooks.  Amazing.

  21. It is truly amazing to think about someone writing out the entire text of
    the Bible in Gregg shorthand. I'd love to be able to see what those
    notebooks look like.

    Alex

  22. OK who wants to go on a road trip to New Jersey to Rider University's Moore Library Special Collections to scan the Gregg Bible and post it in the Documents area? (Please post it in a multi-page file rather than uploading each page individually.)   This will a grueling journey, fraught with difficulty, but will pay off with the respect of your peers.

  25. It wouldn't be too hard to automate the transcription, if it weren't for all those words like Zorobabel, Abiud, and Eliakim which might defy phonographic analysis. Then there are verb derivatives like desireth and desirest which do not appear in dictionaries.   One time, I loaded the Bible into MS Word and hit spell check. I just kept adding words for about half an hour and finally had to give up.

  26. Can you tell me how to do a "multi-page" file? That would be great–I'd be
    glad to take my contributions out and re-do them, but am clueless about how
    to accomplish it.

    Alex

  29. "it weren't for all those words like Zorobabel, Abiud, and Eliakim which might defy phonographic analysis. " You'd either have to know the system very well or just spell those words out… and have a key for them for those of us (me) who need it. Debbi

  32. My recommendation is thus:  Just write out one book of the Bible at a time.  Here is another tip:  For superlatively non-English words, write the word first in longhand, and when it occurs again, spell it in shorthand.  With a word like Melchizedek, you would just spell "m e l k i z d e k //".  Just write it in longhand the first time, then spell it in shorthand thereafter.  Amorites: "a m o r i [right s] //"; Perizzites, "p r e [right z] i t s //"; Jebusites: "j e b u s i t s //"; Asyncritus: "a s n k r e t u s //"; Phlegon: "f l e g o n //"; Hermas: "[dot] [inverted e] a s //".   In terms of Early Modern English problems, I suggest using a more modern version of the Bible. 🙂

  33.  I agree with the longhand suggestion — that's how sometimes they deal with proper names in the stories in the Gregg Writer:  first spell it out in longhand, then shorthand it the second time.

  35. At this moment, I'm just so absolutely incensed that Mr. Crawley spent at least three years of his life writing out the English Bible in the classic form of Gregg Shorthand, and right now his labor and the Holy Bible are sitting in a dark box on a New Jersey library shelf–and have been for many years–unpublished, unable to shine their light on anyone. Is this not unthinkable? How many Gregg writers/learners are there (and have there been) who would relish reading from this Book?

    It seems to me that copying whatever has already been written in the Gregg Bible in the Rider Moore library would be far easier than doing a fresh translation, and it would be an ideal exercise for immersion, both in Gregg Shorthand and the life-giving words of the Holy Scriptures.

    I read on a different message board that the Moore Library has no plans to scan and upload the writings due to lack of staff. I spoke with the librarian and he said that it would be okay for someone or a group to come in and handcopy the books (not photocopy), but I wonder how he would feel about someone taking pictures of the pages with an iphone? I'm on the west coast, but I wonder if there is someone nearby who could go in and look at the collection, and maybe size up the job. Surely they would let someone photocopy the letters that Crawley's wife wrote to Louis Leslie in the 1960's.

    1. Not scanning because of lack of staff? In a university? Aren't there students willing to do the job for a little pay? Or even volunteers? Have they heard of the Google Library project? It seems to me that they don't want to pay someone to do it.

    2. I copied this reply that someone copied and pasted on to the message board at the following link:

      http://www.greggshorthand.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=656&page=2
      ==============
      Here is the answer from Mr. Chickering about the Bible manuscripts in Rider University:

      "What we have consists of 12 steno notebooks, handwritten in faded ink, written in the 1930s on unnumbered pages, of the old and new testaments. To scan all of the notebooks in their entirety is more than we could possibly do with current staffing levels. It is a massive undertaking and would probably take a year or more to complete. However it may be possible to do one or two of the steno notebooks.

      We will plan some test scans into the already scheduled work, and see what quality the results yield.

      When we have accomplished this we will let you know what might be realistic."

      If you would like to join in encouraging this effort, please write a thank you note to:

      William Chickering
      Dean of Libraries
      Moore Library rm 213,
      Rider University, New Jersey"

      ===========
      end of message board post

      I called someone else (Robert Congleton, the contact person on the website page for the special archives library) yesterday wondering if it's okay to go in and handcopy. He said that it would be okay, but there has to be an appointment. He said they didn't have any plans to scan and upload.

      Moore Library houses the "Louis Leslie Collection." It may be seen by appointment, but much of it is uploaded and available on their digital archives site.

      http://cdm15457.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/landingpage/collection/p15457coll1

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